Pharmakia, Plant Medicines, Dependancy, Escapism, & Extra


From podcast: https://bengreenfieldlife.com/podcast/pharmakia-robert-orem/

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:00:54] Podcast Sponsors

[00:05:22] Episode Intro

[00:08:10] Robert’s journey in the direction of plant drugs

[00:21:14] The hyperlink between drug use and spirituality and the risks of it

[00:32:45] How meditation removes full need to strive medication to get religious experiences

[00:34:31] What’s pharmakeia? Is it using medication particularly for divination?

[00:40:22] White Magic shamans declare that they go into the battles with demons or darkish spirits by the powers of Jesus and God. Is that additionally pharmakia?

[00:43:57] Podcast Sponsors

[00:50:27] The Use Of Medication For Religious Functions

[00:56:19] Oils and incense utilized by Holy monks are a psychedelic combine and an exception to pharmakeia?

[01:03:33] The grandfathers of plant drugs, and their resentment in the direction of Christianity?

[01:13:43] Did the church had quite a lot of affect from using entheogens?

[01:27:52] Closing the Podcast

[01:29:16] Parts of Vitality

[01:32:54] Finish of Podcast

Ben: My identify is Ben Greenfield. And, on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

Robert: No matter religious expertise you are having if you’re excessive goes to be intense. The issue is it is a deception. And, the real expertise that the deception is an imitation of is the expertise of rebirth and renewal and religious life by way of religion within the real God, which comes by way of religion in Jesus Christ.

Ben: Religion, household, health, well being, efficiency, diet, longevity, ancestral dwelling, biohacking, and an entire lot extra. Welcome to the present.

Hey, let’s discuss electrolytes. We have established the truth that I’m tremendous into salt. I salt a ton. And, one of many causes for that’s after I used to race Ironman Triathlon, we had a train physiologist from Gatorade come up and take a look at our complete staff. I raced for staff Timex. And, it seems that I had an unlimited quantity of sweat sodium loss, like thrice the typical quantity. I started to make use of lots of salt round 6 grams a day together with a bunch of different electrolytes like full spectrum electrolytes and instantly efficiency bought higher, restoration bought higher. I’d fall asleep at night time and never really feel my blood pounding in my ears, which had grown so accustomed to and that I assumed was regular. And, I’m nonetheless tremendous into electrolytes, however I need them to style good, I need to be freed from sugar and synthetic elements and coloring, I do not need, properly, let’s lower straight to the chase, Gatorade or any of those different multi-colored principally sugar bottles you could purchase. They’re simply chock filled with all types of crap.

So, I feel top-of-the-line electrolytes formulation out there’s one that’s low carb, paleo, keto, matches into complete meals diets, good for fasting, good for athletes, good for all kinds of well being situations designed by a trusted buddy of mine whose identify is Robb Wolf, designed with a bunch of science on the precise ratios behind issues just like the sodium, the magnesium, the potassium, the calcium, et cetera, and utilized by all kinds of Particular Forces, tech leaders, skilled athletes, you identify it. It is referred to as LMNT. Whether or not your mother or an train fanatic or a giant sweater or a sauna lover otherwise you need a dynamite no sugar margarita with their citrus salt taste, sure, it is good, then you definitely want LMNT. You will get a free present from LMNT if you happen to go and order some with my hyperlink and your physique goes to thanks large time as a result of these items tastes good and is nice for you and solves the electrolyte equation, stops it in its tracks in relation to something associated to an electrolyte deficiency or imbalance. Go to DrinkLMNT.com/BenGreenfield, DrinkL-M-N-T.com/BenGreenfield. Get your free presents together with your buy, DrinkLMNT.com/BenGreenfield.

Alright, if you happen to take pleasure in utilizing nicotine, you bought to take a look at this firm referred to as Lucy. Alright, look, I do know we’re all adults right here and we prefer to give attention to rest and this mix of unpolluted power that you just get from one thing like nicotine, however we additionally know that cigarettes are unhealthy for you. So, if you happen to take pleasure in utilizing nicotine and also you need a clear nicotine product not filled with a bunch of synthetic hoo-has, then that is the stuff for you. It is referred to as Lucy, L-U-C-Y. They’re at Lucy.co. The promo code is BEN20. They’ve gum. I just like the pomegranate taste. They’ve lozenges. I just like the cherry ice taste. They’ve the little pouches that you just put in your mouth. I just like the peppermint taste for these. The promo code is BEN20. In case you use that, that will provide you with the 20% low cost at checkout. It does comprise nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. I am imagined to inform you that. That is me being accountable. I adore it. I chew a bit within the midmorning and a bit within the midafternoon or a bit within the midmorning and a lozenge within the midafternoon. So, I lower myself off at about two, most three per day. However, oh my gosh, it freaking works.

So, it is referred to as Lucy, Lucy.co. Use promo code BEN20 and you’ll expertise with clear nicotine really looks like.

Alright, so everyone needs to spice up their immune system today. Getting in a sauna 4 to 5 instances every week may give you that plus diminished ache and irritation, enhance warmth shock proteins, assist keep muscle even when you’ll be able to’t work out, and make you are feeling on high of the world as a result of the penetrating infrared warmth releases so many pleased hormones. So, in my home, you will discover a Clearlight Sauna. It is the sauna firm recognized for shielding in opposition to EMF. Each comes with a lifetime guarantee, in order that they’re constructed to final. It is sufficiently big for me to work out in, for my complete household to sweat in. They’ve an entire number of sizes together with a one-person model of what I’ve, which is ideal for even the smallest house. And, they’ve a quiz on their web site. Ain’t that useful that will help you decide which of their 13 completely different fashions is ideal for you and your home and your loved ones and your wants?

So, if you wish to sweat buckets and get wholesome doing so within the privateness of your personal house, go take a look at this quiz at HealwithHeat.com, HealwithHeat.com. Code BEN will get you a reduction and free transport at HealwithHeat.com, so examine them out. HealwithHeat.com, code BEN.

Alright, people. Properly, you could have heard me speaking fairly a bit recently about this idea of plant medicines and the way I’m more and more disillusioned with their use and the wild reputation of them for a wide range of causes. One of many books that I learn as I researched this complete idea of the professionals and the cons of plant drugs, it is referred to as “Pharmakia.” “Pharmakia” refers to a phrase that I would really seen rather a lot pop up within the Bible, but it surely wasn’t till I really learn a guide about what it really implies that I had an actual mild bulb second about why it really seems within the phrase of God as one thing that we must be cautious with. And, if you happen to’re listening and you are not a Christian, you do not consider within the Bible, I’d encourage you to truly take heed to this episode anyhow with the writer of this “Pharmakia” guide simply because it is chock filled with lots of data, I feel anyone who’s interested by plant drugs or is concerned with plant drugs or working with a shaman or something like that ought to know. As a result of there’s lots of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you must find out about. 

And, my visitor on the present right this moment, Robert Orem, he not solely has a background in using lots of these compounds, however he additionally has a really, very distinctive perspective as any person who has type of like me change into disillusioned with them and has actually made lots of sense out of why they may not be all that they are cracked as much as be or a minimum of include quite a lot of warning required in an enormous yellow warning flag on them.

So, Robert has taught in jails, therapy facilities, colleges, and church buildings primarily within the realm of dependancy and drug use, and has a private historical past with plant medicines and drug dependancy, and has additionally studied up fairly a bit on what the phrase “pharmakia” actually means and a few fascinating views on why these sort of medication would possibly exist within the first place when it comes to the plant makes use of on the planet Earth and an entire lot extra. So, Robert, thanks a lot for approaching the present, man. I am tremendous excited to unpack this with you.

Robert:  I’m tremendous excited to be in your present. I have been wanting ahead to it for a very long time.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And, your guide, I simply randomly got here throughout, it was type of flying below the radar and also you and I’ve been speaking behind the scenes about perhaps turning into an audiobook or one thing. So, some extra people can hear in who’re extra of the podcast audio sorts, so if you happen to guys have not learn the guide, you’ll be able to go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Pharmakia, P-H-A-R-M-A-Ok-I-A. That is the place the shownotes for the present are going to be. And in addition, I am going to hyperlink to the guide over there. And finally, if we wind up doing an audiobook model of it, you will be the primary to know if you happen to’re listening in right here.

However, Robert, inform me about your historical past with using plant medicines and medicines and what bought you curious about all this within the first place.

Robert:  I used to be only a typical Eighties occasion boy. There was nothing religious about my drug use in any respect. I ended up having some religious experiences, however they weren’t what I used to be in search of. I used to be simply seeking to have a great time. Again then, we did not even use the time period plant medicines, however I did form of have an aversion to usually utilizing any medication that weren’t pure. So, I attempted every part aside from crack cocaine, however pot was my drug of selection. I used to be a basic wake-and-bake stoner. I did lots of mushrooms and I did lots of cannabis. Like I mentioned, I did not need to get into doing issues like cocaine or methamphetamine regularly, I simply did not like the truth that they weren’t pure.

I most likely ought to point out since that is the Ben Greenfield podcast that about the identical time that I first began smoking pot, I began weight coaching additionally. I used to be about 17. And, I fell in love with figuring out on the similar time.

Ben:  That is attention-grabbing. I really run it. I even interviewed a man who’s extra just like the endurance ultra-running neighborhood who really makes use of hashish fairly a bit for lengthy runs for that pain-killing euphoric impact. And, I do know individuals who will go hit the fitness center on it. I feel, even in style podcasters like Joe Rogan have talked about taking THC earlier than they go crush it on the kettlebells or on the jiu-jitsu mats.

Robert:  Proper. I did that on a regular basis. It was certainly one of my favourite issues to do. I’d go for 3, four-hour bike rides up within the Marin Headlands above San Francisco or I’d simply go to the load room. So, figuring out was one of many few good habits that I’ve had my complete life, however —

Ben:  You will slot in with our crowd.

Robert:  Yeah. Yeah, there’s undoubtedly lots of issues that I loved about smoking pot and getting excessive. I imply, I did not get hooked on the unhealthy experiences that got here later, I bought hooked on the euphoria and the comfort and the creativity and the nice instances. And, when that is all I used to be having, I could not see any purpose to not be doing them on a regular basis. I imply, why would not I? If I used to be nonetheless practical and I may have a greater exercise or a greater bike journey or a greater inventive writing session, why would not I smoke a joint or hit just a few bowls?

Ben:  Proper. Yeah. I assume, there’s the pain-numbing impact that lots of people get hooked on opioids will depend on, however there’s additionally a little bit little bit of escapism concerned as properly. I feel there’s a little bit little bit of a disconnection from self, a disconnection from perhaps the ache which may assist you to develop as an individual, and actually I feel for a similar purpose that lots of people wind up doing heftier doses of plant medicines in a journeying based mostly expertise, I feel that and I do know we’ll get an opportunity to delve into this fairly a bit, it is also only a noble excuse to tweak the mind chemistry and fall right into a frame of mind in which you’ll neglect all of your worries and neglect all of your pains and simply escape for a short while. 

And, I do not essentially suppose that is wholesome. And, clearly it comes with quite a lot of potential danger based mostly on one thing I’ve talked about within the podcast and also you discuss in your guide the power of many of those, notably plant-based compounds, to open one as much as some religious worlds and different dimensions that may be a little bit bit harmful to be browsing round in, which I do know sounds type of woo. 

However, as a result of lots of people go to ayahuasca in Amazon or Peru or no matter or folks journey with magic mushrooms, et cetera, did you ever do lots of this thoughts enlargement religious exploration like a lightweight blocking masks with music and laying again with some sort of 5-HT agonist surge round your bloodstream? Or, had been you simply smoking pot and hitting the fitness center?

Robert:  Just about smoking pot and hitting the fitness center till I had my first “actual religious expertise” after I was excessive. After I first used, I used to be a junior in highschool. However, after I first bought excessive, I have been consuming for just a few years. after I first began smoking pot, I used to be a junior. My senior 12 months, I used to be smoking pot daily. I used to be additionally doing cocaine and mushrooms and a few prescription drugs like on the weekends. I by no means had any unhealthy journeys. I by no means had any issues at school. I did not have any issues in my relationships in any respect. In truth, my life was going nice. After which, rapidly, on one night time, every part modified. It was throughout my freshman 12 months of school and I had been performing some prescription drugs and I used to be getting excessive with a few my associates. We had been simply watching TV and I described this expertise intimately on a video testimony that I made not too long ago. It should be accessible at RobertOrem.com.

Ben:  Okay.

Robert:  You’ll be able to simply search for half one of many testimony, however principally, I had an expertise what I later realized shamans discuss with as “being taught.”

Ben:  Being taught.

Robert:  Sure.

Ben:  Okay.

Robert:  The place the thoughts is taken over and also you obtain a imaginative and prescient or a stage of understanding that’s merely supernatural. And, on the time, we had been simply watching TV speaking. And, when this second got here on to me, it was my girlfriend, myself, and our greatest buddy had been sitting in our lounge watching the final episode of “M*A*S*H,” which a few of your viewers could do not forget that present, and rapidly, I seemed over to our buddy and he was speaking and I may instantly see every part about his persona. I understood all his anxieties and his considerations. I may see how the affect of his mother and father was inflicting him a lot of confusion and strife. And, I may simply see this man like an open guide. 

After which, I seemed the opposite path and I noticed by way of my house wall into the subsequent house, I noticed the woman who lived subsequent door to us sitting on the sofa and I may see her nervousness. She was in gross sales, so I may see her nervousness about cash, the way it was affecting her. I am not exaggerating this in any respect. I seemed on the tv set. I did not simply see this system “M*A*S*H,” I noticed the actors on the stage below the lights with the administrators. I noticed the waves being transmitted to the tv. We had antennas again then on our TVs. And, I noticed simply the operate of the tv set, and I checked out my girlfriend on the time and I mentioned, “One thing’s taking place, I am sensible, I am sensible.” And, in fact, they’re listening to me they’re pondering, “Okay, proper, no matter, you are simply stumped.”

My greatest buddy left and I am simply there with my girlfriend, and this continued to occur. And, I rapidly checked out myself and I had this second the place I used to be in a position to see my future and I noticed every part falling aside in my life that was going completely nice on the time. And, at that second, I had a panic assault and that ended up being my first of many panic assaults. However, wanting again on that have, I can perceive in mild of pharmakia and in mild of every part I’ve studied since then, I can perceive that at that second, I had a spirit enter me and it was a spirit of worry, it was a demon who principally took management of me and destroyed my life. And, he gave me a prophetic imaginative and prescient of what was going to occur. And, that have is similar to accounts that I later examine of shamans once they first come into contact, once they first encounter the spirits which can be going to change into their guides, their major guides.

My spirit information, the primary spirit that I used to be uncovered to was a spirit of worry. And, in fact, at the moment, I had no concept that there was something religious occurring, I simply knew that I had had a panic assault and pot was beginning to trigger me some critical issues. Positive sufficient, my life began to disintegrate. I flunked out of school. My girlfriend and I broke up. I ended up dwelling in my van down by the seaside for some time. I used to be beginning to have psychological well being points. And, I simply determined, “Okay, I bought to do no matter I can do to get off the pot, I bought to cease utilizing this pot” as a result of I understood that was actually the primary a part of the issue. And, I spent eight years attempting every part that I may probably discover to cease utilizing and get management of myself once more however nothing labored.

And, one of many issues that I attempted was 12 steps and Alcoholics Nameless. I do not know if you happen to’re aware of them in any respect.

Ben:  Yeah, I am fairly acquainted. Yeah.

Robert:  It is a very “religious program.” They’ve a saying that claims “There is not any religious angle, it is a religious program.” So, I used to be dwelling in San Francisco on the time and I went into AA. And, as I used to be concerned in that program for a couple of 12 months and a half, I began turning into “religious.” The New Age was very fashionable again then. I bought launched to Shamanism and Hinduism and Zen Buddhism and that sort of meditation. And, I began studying books, philosophical books, and Zen books, and religious books. And so, my first introduction to something religious in any respect was in that context the place I used to be really sober for the primary time in years.

Ben:  You were not a Christian at that time?

Robert:  No.

Ben:  Okay.

Robert:  No. I had not been raised Christian. In all of the issues that I attempted to cease utilizing, it by no means occurred to me to crack open a Bible or name out to Jesus, it simply wasn’t even an choice that I thought-about. It is principally the best way I used to be raised. However then, I ended up relapsing out of 12 steps and it was a really attention-grabbing time and I feel a few of your viewers will relate to this. I used to be very shocked to search out that after I went again to smoking pot after I had been launched to all these religious practices and rules and theories that I really felt nearer to God as I understood him on the time, it wasn’t the god of the Bible, it was nonetheless my greater energy. And, I felt extra religious after I was utilizing.

So, at that time in my historical past, my utilizing turned nearer to what you are describing the place persons are attempting to make use of medication as a “entheogen” or the place they’re attempting to have an encounter with Divine Mild or no matter identify they need to placed on it. 

And, that was how I exploit medication up till the purpose the place I bought launched to Jesus Christ, God. After which, God principally spoke to me one night time about it and set me freed from the will for it. However, at that time, I had given up attempting to stop smoking. And, I had this religious rationalization for what I used to be doing. I turned a Christian. I accepted Jesus Christ. I had an intensely constructive religious expertise that I describe on these movies which can be on my RobertOrem.com web site. And, as quickly as I got here to religion in Jesus Christ, he began to wash up all these different areas that drug addicts usually wrestle with cussing and use of pornography and drunkenness and matches of rage, and sexual relationships.

So, my first 12 months as a Christian, God was working in a strong solution to make me extra like Jesus. However, I nonetheless believed that drug use was a spiritually constructive factor.

Ben:  Yeah.

And, by the best way, if I may interrupt actual fast relating to the hyperlink between drug use and spirituality. I imply, lots of people and that is widespread in a few of the psilocybin research which have been completed in locations like Johns Hopkins will report that using psilocybin, for instance, was probably the most religious expertise that they’ve ever had of their life. And, many religions historically have relied upon issues like psilocybin and hashish and different entheogens, et cetera, as a result of it appears that evidently to not get too chemically about this, there’s this hyperlink between the dopaminergic response, the triggering of those 5-HTA receptors, one other receptor referred to as NAAG and type of what goes on within the prefrontal cortex in relation to many of those medication that type of shift you into this similar sort of spiritually receptive state that you just would possibly expertise throughout meditation and prayer and worship and music. It is type of like urgent down the fuel pedal on full velocity to shift you into this state of what could describe of as religious enlightenment or one thing like that, which I feel is lots of the background behind the attractiveness of lots of these compounds that persons are utilizing now to “discover God” or develop their thoughts or to deal with trauma or to meditate or worship or something like that just because there’s one thing about these that shift you into this deeply spiritually responsive and open and receptive state. 

It is why many people who I do know who’ve been earlier atheists, for instance, will go on some type of a plant drugs journey with psilocybin or ayahuasca or DMT. And, once they end that, they’re not atheists, like they arrive out the opposite aspect saying, “Properly, I’ve seen God, I do know there is a greater energy. I do know God exists. I do know there is a deep religious world that I by no means actually understood or turned concerned with.” And, many individuals will hear that and be like, “Oh, properly, that is wonderful. This might be the salvation of humankind, the power to have the ability to use such a compounds.” And, perhaps afterward, we’ll get an opportunity to unpack the story behind people like Timothy Leary and Aldous Huxley and the way they really tackled such a potential of a few of these compounds.

However, what’s attention-grabbing is that, and I do not know if you happen to’d agree with me, I’d think about having learn your guide that you just would possibly, the concept of utilizing medication as a crutch, for instance, to permit somebody to be religious, I feel, is definitely fairly harmful as a result of rapidly, we’re sending a message to billions and billions of those who the best way to search out God includes some type of secret hidden entry to those compounds that will shift one state or the power to have the ability to meet with a sham or the power to have the ability to journey to Peru, for instance.

And, for my part, what people are experiencing in that state is just not solely a deeply religious expertise however a type of like a realizing or an expertise of God or the religious world with out a true realizing when it comes to that being woven into one’s life and it winds up in lots of circumstances I feel being a deal the place folks with the intention to have a religious expertise start to depend on the neurochemical shifts that happen in response to drug use. And, I feel there’s rather a lot a hazard there as a result of it takes folks away from the so-called exhausting work of chopping wooden and carrying water, and praying and devotion, and meditation, fasting, as a substitute you simply pop some drugs and quick observe your solution to God.

So, A, it produces a little bit little bit of a religious laziness, and B, it additionally, and that is type of necessary when it comes again to what you mentioned concerning the feeling is that you’ve like a demon or religious possession, it opens folks as much as this complete religious world the place, yeah, you would possibly expertise God or Jesus or Christ consciousness or no matter you need to describe as that however you are additionally on this complete different dimension the place there’s lots of different religious entities that would reap the benefits of you, that would possess you, that would affect you. And, for each 9 folks I do know have had a deeply constructive expertise with many of those entheogens from hashish to psilocybin to DMT and past, there’s one one who type of will get tousled who comes again with triggered schizophrenia or bipolar or simply is tremendous bizarre and feels as if they’re by no means the identical from that time on. And, some even really feel as if they have been possessed by one thing.

And, that is the place I feel lots of the hazard lies is A, a manufacturing of religious laziness and it relies on medication for a religious expertise. After which, B, the potential to truly get possessed by a few of these entities that you just’re partaking with as you type of cross over into this portal that is harmful to cross over into and goes again to that complete idea of the rationale it is really warned in opposition to within the Bible is the truth that there’s lots of risks as soon as we’re coming into that portal as a result of we’re messing with religious entities which have existed for 1000’s of years that actually know the way to use human beings as puppets.

I do know that is rather a lot to digest, however I feel these are necessary issues to consider.

Robert:  Yeah, completely. That is just about the context of my expertise though we’re discussing it now with the advantage of hindsight. On the time, I did not perceive any of this. And yeah, you are completely proper, the altered state of consciousness that the medication produce allow us to understand a religious realm that may be very actual. However, based on the scripture, there’s two crucial issues you have got to remember is A, the Bible is obvious that one-third of all of the angels rebelled in opposition to God and adopted Devil and have become demons. And so, there are demons in that religious realm. After which, the second necessary half to know is God has condemned using medication, interval, full cease. It is not like the best way he treats alcohol the place alcohol use moderately is suitable, it is not a sin, drunkenness is the sin if you’re speaking about alcohol. God would not make that form of graduated estimation of using medication, it is there isn’t any acceptable use of medication. And so, I can perceive what occurred to me now as a result of it is utterly in keeping with what you simply described and if you interpret it biblically however on the time I did not know.

And, to your level about counting on the drug, that is precisely — I will not spend any extra time on, I am going to simply inform you actual rapidly, it is type of the spotlight of the half two of my private testimony that is on RobertOrem.com. However, I had been recommended by my assistant pastor on the time about my persevering with drug use. I am a Christian and I informed him flat out, I mentioned, “Look, I exploit pot. I am an addict first. I attempted every part there’s to get off of it. I am unable to get off of it,” I mentioned. And, I used pot for I used to be satisfied on the time that it was bringing me nearer to God. And, one night time after I was studying my Bible most likely excessive as a result of I used to be excessive on a regular basis, God spoke to me and he has solely spoken to me a few instances in the best way that he spoke to me that night time. He solely mentioned a few sentences. He mentioned, “You are a slave to marijuana and it is not my will that you’d be a slave to something.” And, I used to be simply listening. I imply, I did not hear voices, I heard in my spirit, I heard God’s voice, and I knew who it was as a result of I had come right into a relationship with God by way of religion in Jesus. And, the subsequent factor he mentioned is, “You suppose you want marijuana with the intention to draw near me however you do not.” He mentioned, “You have made it an idol” interval. And, that was all he mentioned to me.

However, the wonderful factor was from that second, my need for marijuana was gone. I imply I simply accepted the reality of what I have been informed. I wasn’t going to argue with God about both of these items. And, simply from that second, God set me free from my need for marijuana. So, it was my freedom for my need, my slavery to medication was merely a part of the method of sanctification that every one Christians undergo. Once you enter right into a relationship with Jesus Christ, he accepts you proper the place you’re. It would not matter. You could be like I used to be utilizing porn, getting drunk, getting it far. I bought suicidal points. I am smoking pot daily. God would not care, “Come to my Son as you’re.” After which, as soon as I bought right into a relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit began simply strolling me out of these sins. And, my drug use was simply one other a type of sins. However then, later, He led me to start out doing all this analysis. And, it actually enabled me to place a nice level on my understanding of the religious nature of what had been occurring for all these years and why I had suffered the issues I would suffered.

You talked about one out of 9 individuals who find yourself having psychological well being points or no matter. My expertise is de facto nearer to about half and half. I imply, I’d say half of my stoner buddy associates that I knew who had been extra like me and that it simply devastated us emotionally and mentally and spiritually.

Ben:  Yeah, yeah. And, granted I feel that hashish is exclusive and that it’s extremely straightforward to simply be a practical day-to-day pot smoker. And, whereas hashish has been utilized by shamanic and pagan cultures for some fairly deep entheogenic experiences, it is fairly straightforward to make use of recreationally and never essentially in the identical method that lots of people would use deliberately like save up for one or two months and put together by way of a food regimen to do one thing like a deep psilocybin or ayahuasca expertise. I feel hashish is a little bit bit completely different. I do know individuals who do not contact hashish or marijuana and who will do one thing like journey with psilocybin a few times a 12 months or go to a DMT expertise yearly on sure instances like no matter, their birthday, their ceremony of passage, their wedding ceremony now, no matter. And so, I feel that there is this ceremonial side of issues that must be considered as properly as a result of I do know there’s lots of people who simply aren’t every day customers however they’re going to sometimes go on these deep journeys, which I do not suppose have as a lot of an issue from an addictive potential however extra of the potential that you just’re coming into into this religious world wherein your soul is ripped broad open and also you’re really at a really excessive and fairly harmful potential to be influenced by different entities.

However, that being mentioned, I need to backpedal for only a second and ask you a few clarifying questions. And, earlier than I do, I do need to spotlight one thing that you just talked about, and that’s that after you begin a every day religious stroll, for instance, waking up within the morning and doing meditation and particularly a Christ-based meditation or one thing the place you are communing with God, prayer, scripture studying, devotions, et cetera, it really is bizarre and nearly magical how a lot the necessity afterward within the day as an example like on the finish of the day to hit a vape pen or the will to do a psilocybin expertise on the finish of the week or one thing like that simply goes away as a result of your soul spiritually fulfilled. 

I’ve to focus on the significance for these of you listening in of what Robert mentioned as a result of I’ve discovered that when I’m very intentional and really aware of my morning religious expertise in a full sober state as a result of let’s face, only a few of us roll away from bed at 5:00 a.m. and take into consideration going to take mushrooms earlier than we go to our devotions. There’s this entire removing of a need to even fiddle with these medication for a deep religious expertise. It is type of odd that it occurs so rapidly when you dedicate your self to that every day chopping wooden, carrying water observe of a morning devotional or a night devotional prayer scripture studying meditation sort of routine. I’ve discovered that to be extremely useful for myself as a man who’s surrounded by people who find themselves utilizing these plant medicines and who’ve rampant entry to them. It is nearly like being in a sober state, communing with God turns into way more engaging and removes this need to make use of lots of these medicines. So, I need to spotlight the significance of that.

However, I additionally need to ask you Robert. You mentioned one thing a short while in the past that I would like you to make clear. You mentioned that the Bible flat out condemns medication. And but, it is my understanding that this Greek phrase “pharmakia,” as a noun, refers to using medication in occult magic like in sorcery or to divine with the religious world or to journey, for instance, into a distinct religious dimension. 

And, the rationale I feel that is necessary to convey up and I like so that you can make clear with this a little bit bit is as a result of if we are saying the Bible flat out condemns using medication, then I feel we enter right into a situation the place it’s extremely troublesome to say, “Properly, what a couple of pharmaceutical? What about cocoa? What about even like microdosing for sensory enhancement with one thing like LSD or psilocybin or one thing like that?” So, is it the flat-out condemning using something that shifts one state? As a result of I feel that the slippery slope there’s that we wind up simply condemning every part together with probably like kale versus is it using medication particularly for the aim of divination, of coming into into a distinct religious dimension. As a result of it is my impression, and I might be mistaken right here, that what we’re not imagined to be doing, what we must be very cautious with is taking a excessive dose of an entheogen that shifts us into this portal wherein we’re interacting with the religious world and exposing ourselves to not simply God or Jesus however angels, demons, spirits, entities, you identify it.

Robert:  I feel you hit on an necessary side of understanding what the Bible really teaches about that. And, after I was researching for pharmakia, it is necessary to not develop the definition of the time period into areas that the scripture would not handle. And, it is also necessary to not limit the definition of the time period to eradicate practices that the scripture does handle.

So, for instance, there are books on the market the place some folks have tried to argue that the Bible’s references to pharmakia imply that even medicinal medication are verboten and also you should not even be taking what I discuss with as reputable drugs.

Ben:  There’s a guide referred to as “Pharmakeia.” It is spelled in another way than your guide. It is spelled P-H-A-R-M-A-Ok-E-I-A. It is referred to as “Pharmakeia: A Hidden Murderer.” And, I learn that guide after I learn yours and that writer really says, “Yo, any drug, interval, is pure evil and sorcery.” And, I do not agree with that, however go forward. What had been you going to say?

Robert:  Yeah. So, I do not agree with that both. I imply, in my guide after I was defining drug, it type of outlined the boundaries of the definition of pharmakia additionally. And so, in my guide, I mentioned, “Any substance that folks use to enter an altered state of consciousness other than reputable medical want.”

Ben:  Okay.

Robert:  Now, I put a fudge phrase in there, “reputable medical want.” You’ll be able to determine for your self what a reputable medical want is.

Ben:  Yeah.

Robert:  However, the Greek phrase pharmakia was utilized in other ways within the Greek language additionally, however there’s just one method that it is used within the scripture. It is within the sense of sorcery. Sorcery is an Outdated English phrase for witchcraft. However principally, the 2 contexts that pharmakia seems in within the Bible is within the observe of idol worship and within the observe of witchcraft. And so, something that falls throughout the boundaries of these two religious practices, both worship of what the Bible would say are false gods or the observe of any sort of witchcraft, that is form of your boundaries for pharmakia.

So, what persons are speaking about now’s journeying is, to my thoughts, that is simply witchcraft with a form of a shamanistic twist. Journeying out of physique is identical phenomenon as shamanic flight, except I am not understanding accurately, which is identical factor that witches do once they carry out astral projection or astral journey.

Ben:  Are you able to describe what astral projection and shamanic flight are?

Robert:  Okay. So, it is an out-of-body expertise. Mainly, it is an intentional out-of-body expertise wherein both the witch or the shaman initiatives their spirit physique, which is a reproduction, a double of the bodily physique into the religious realm that we have been speaking about medication help you enter and work together with the religious realm. And so, a witch or a shaman will typically use medication with the intention to separate their spirit physique from their bodily physique in order that they’ll enter into the religious realm. And, whereas they’re within the religious realm, that is once they have their encounters with no matter gods they’re searching for to come across. 

A medieval witch would have typically instances been deliberately searching for to come across demons. Shamans usually are searching for to commune with their gods, that are usually animistic or naturalistic gods just like the god of rain, god of wind, or a jaguar spirit, or no matter. However, even shamans generally encounter demons. Shamans know that demons are actual.

Ben:  Oh, yeah. I do not I do not know a single shaman, by the best way, who would not declare the power to have the ability to go into one other realm and battle in opposition to evil spirits that is perhaps projected by different shamans or shift their spirit into a distinct portal or a distinct dimension. However, apparently and perhaps we are able to discuss this afterward, lots of them like these so-called white magic shamans will say, “Okay, I am going with the powers of Jesus and God to energy to battle these different demons or darkish spirits which can be in a distinct area.” And, which may appear all noble and stuff, but it surely type of falls below the identical class as pharmakia, would not it?

Robert:  It’s pharmakia. And, I feel it makes extra sense, it’s going to most likely make extra sense to your listeners if I simply provide you with simply two of the verses which can be within the scripture that discuss with pharmacos. There’s really three Greek phrases. There’s “pharmakia,” which such as you mentioned is a noun. It is really an adjective, but it surely’s used as a noun. And, it is used to specify witchcraft or idolatry that features using medication. Okay. So, there’s a lot of completely different sorts of witchcraft and there is a lot of completely different types of idolatry, however pharmakia refer particularly to witchcraft and idolatry that features drug use. The second phrase is “pharmacos.” Pharmacos is a noun and it refers to the one who’s working towards pharmakia. So, a pharmacos practices pharmakia, that is straightforward. After which, there is a third phrase, “epano,” which is a generic time period, which it is humorous my restricted Greek understanding, I feel a great translation of epano is the excessive ones. However, it’s a generic phrase for witchcraft that may discuss with people who find themselves utilizing medication of their magic or not. It relies upon ends on the context.

However anyway, so let me simply provide you with two versus one from the Outdated Testomony, one from the New Testomony. And, that’ll assist your viewers form of perceive the extent of form of trepidation and concern that I’ve and that you just now have about these processes. So, within the guide of Exodus in Chapter 22, Moses has simply given Israel the regulation, The Ten Commandments, and he is going by way of and including just a few free legal guidelines, simply extra instructions to them. And, in Exodus 22:18, Moses talking on behalf of Yahweh, the God of the Outdated Testomony says, “You shall not allow a sorceress to reside.” Now, that phrase sorceress is pharmacos within the Greek. So, it refers particularly to it is in its female kind within the Greek, but it surely refers particularly to a feminine witch who’s utilizing medication to carry out magic. Alright, and the subsequent verse, he says, “Whoever lies with an animal shall certainly be put to dying.” And, the subsequent verse he mentioned, “He who sacrifices to any God besides to the Lord shall be totally destroyed.”

So, you’ve got bought using medication in a religious context, drug use for religious functions condemned as a capital offense and it is listed together with bestiality and idolatry. And, if you understand your Bible in any respect, God is just not down with bestiality or idolatry. Okay. It was a capital offense.

Ben:  Alright, that is cool, however you need to concentrate as a result of it is arising proper across the nook on Friday, December 2nd. You are going to get an opportunity to hitch me and a few actually highly effective therapeutic physicians down in Sarasota, Florida. This can be a reside occasion. It goes from 8:00 a.m. to five:00 p.m. I will be there, my buddy, and a superb former podcast visitor, The Physician Unusual of Drugs, Dr. John Lieurance goes to be there, HBOT USA, Dr. Jason and Melissa Sonners are going to be there with their Hyperbaric Oxygen Remedy, Brian Richards of SaunaSpace, Harry Paul, certainly one of John’s associates who I not too long ago met who’s additionally an incredible healer for an occasion that is tremendous distinctive. It is all based mostly across the parts: earth, hearth, air, and water, with a ton of therapies and applied sciences and modalities, and really distinctive biohacks that you will get uncovered to throughout the complete occasion.

Mainly, what I imply by that’s in relation to air, you are going to study hyperbaric oxygen, and ozone, and air filtration, every part you might want to know to improve your air. In relation to earth, pulsed electromagnetic discipline remedy, earthing, grounding, a bunch of different ways in which you should utilize the facility of the planet to reinforce your well being, your sleep, your restoration, your muscle achieve, your fats loss, much more water. You will study correct water filtration, the way to improve your water, hydrogenated water, structured water, principally soup to nuts, every part you might want to find out about water and the way to apply it in your house and your workplace and your life. After which, lastly hearth, is a enjoyable one. A number of cryotherapy, a little bit little bit of ice too, breathwork, internal hearth practices, a ton of stuff in relation to introducing the ingredient of fireplace into your life.

So, this occasion is tremendous distinctive. John and I’ve been engaged on it behind the scenes and it has come collectively amazingly. There’s even a VIP expertise. In case you join the VIP expertise, you would come two days early or keep just a few days after the occasion, and principally, you’re going to get all of the medical protocols custom-made by Dr. John and his employees if you happen to declare a type of 10 VIP spots. That’ll embrace IV methylene blue, laser therapies, John’s actually distinctive bliss launch, which is principally an endonasal adjustment, which is actually a chiropractic adjustment by way of your nostril on your whole cranium, which if you happen to’ve had TBI or concussion or allergy symptoms or issues like that previously, it completely reboots that whole system. There’s going to even be ozone therapies, Myers’ IV cocktails, exosome therapies, IV laser, entry to a CVAC machine. And, John’s whole facility goes to be at your beck and name if you happen to bought one of many VIP tickets.

After which, we’re additionally most likely going to have a little bit little bit of a celebration afterward within the night after this occasion. The entire thing goes to be a pinch-me-I am-dreaming full-on cutting-edge of biohacking expertise. And, I am simply now letting the world find out about it so spots are going to refill fairly quick. Area is proscribed, however if you wish to get in now, here is how. You go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Parts-Occasion. That is BenGreenfieldLife.com/Parts-Occasion. It is in Sarasota, Florida. Once more, it is all-day Friday, December 2nd. I’d are available in early and keep after. In case you simply need to check out all of the loopy modalities there. I do not understand how quick these VIP tickets are going to promote out, however both method, this factor goes to be completely wonderful. I simply can’t wait, like I am pinching myself, cannot wait to be on the airplane to move down there and do that. So, test it out, BenGreenfieldLife/Parts-Occasion. And, I am going to see you there, I hope.

Alright, here is the deal whether or not you run or journey or hike or swim or work out, you perceive what it means to have this deep need to push more durable and attain farther and go the additional mile. And, consider it or not, the gas for that drive could be in your blood. It may be in your blood. And, if you happen to’re not monitoring your blood, then you definitely’re lacking out on what you would possibly want to truly know the way to construct endurance, increase power, and optimize your well being, and eat the fitting method, and complement the best way, and know if you are going to get sick or if you happen to’re not going to get sick, or if you happen to want sure vitamins or do not want different vitamins. 

There’s this firm referred to as Inside Tracker. They not solely do your blood however your DNA and your health monitoring information too. They determine the place you are optimized and the place you are not. And, these scientists that work for the corporate, they’re in growing older, they’re in genetics, they’re in biometrics, they work collectively to present you a every day motion plan on Inside Tracker with customized steering on the fitting train and diet and supplementation on your physique. So, if you join it with, as an example, your Fitbit or your Garmin, you get to unlock real-time restoration professional suggestions after you full your exercise. So, it is like having a private coach, and a nutritionist, and a blood work particular person, no matter you name these all in your personal pocket. And, they will give 20% to all my listeners if you happen to simply go to InsideTracker.com/Ben. That is InsideTracker.com/Ben. You do not want a code, go to InsideTracker.com/Ben and also you’re off to the blood work and biomarker races.

Alright, Magnesium. I adore it. I really pop six an evening of this Magnesium Breakthrough stuff as a result of it is bought all of the completely different types of magnesium which can be on the market. Alright, so let me provide you with an inventory. Okay, if you happen to’re irritable or anxious, if you happen to wrestle with insomnia, if you happen to get muscle cramps or twitches, in case you have hypertension, if you happen to’re typically constipated, these are all signs of magnesium deficiency, and only a few of them as a result of magnesium is concerned in over 600 biochemical reactions in your physique. 

This Magnesium Breakthrough stuff that I exploit replaces magnesium as a result of it makes use of seven completely different types. Most corporations do not do this. So, your physique can really use and take up all of the completely different sorts of magnesium, and also you get in the most effective of all the most effective sorts of magnesium. A variety of dietary supplements use a budget sorts that your physique cannot use or take up. Not this Breakthrough stuff. And, what they will do is a Black Friday particular. From November twenty first to November twenty ninth, you get Magnesium Breakthrough, however they will add in the entire different BiOptimizers best-in-class merchandise with a 25% low cost. That is fairly enormous.

So, for that Black Friday particular, you go to BiOptimizers.com/Ben and use code Ben10. That will get you 25% off of any order Ben10 at BiOptimizers.com/Ben. And, if you happen to go beginning November twenty first all the best way as much as November twenty ninth, you can reap the benefits of that unique Black Friday provide with that 25% low cost on the entire shebang, the entire catalog. Test it out. BiOptimizers.com/Ben, BiOptimizers.com/Ben.

Do you suppose that is as a result of there’s a lot potential? So, it is exhausting for alcohol to be an entheogen. It is exhausting to truly journey with alcohol. Sometimes, you are simply slobbering drunk by the point you devour sufficient alcohol to take action. I imply, there’s some examples the place folks use alcohol and ceremonies but it surely’s fairly exhausting to OD on alcohol to the purpose the place you are journeying and nonetheless be free sufficient to essentially get something out of it. 

And so, you described earlier how there is a differentiation between medication and alcohol and also you suppose the rationale for that’s as a result of the medication, notably medication that enable them to journey that will be historically used for divination all the best way all the way down to the, you discuss this in your guide, just like the ergo, the precursor to LSD that early witches would smear of their broomsticks and apply rectally or vaginally to have the ability to enter into these different dimensions. Stuff like that’s really placing you at a really, very deep religious danger as a result of once more, you are coming into into this different dimension that our modern-day scientific rational materialistic logical tradition want to deny exists, however simply because we don’t exist does not imply that we are able to eliminate it and kiss all of it goodbye. 

And once more, this returns again to individuals who by no means believed in God doing a plant drugs ceremony popping out the opposite finish saying, “Oh, hey, there’s a God.” There’s this religious portal that we cross into that may be deeply scarring spiritually and/or shift our dependency on the pure easy blissful expertise of searching for God in a full-on sober state to needing medication to hunt God whereas concurrently placing ourselves on the danger for possession and interplay with these religious entities who could not have our greatest pursuits in thoughts.

Robert:  Proper. You must come to grips with the truth that God is just not going to permit folks to come back into communion with him, A, other than Jesus Christ, and B, with using medication. There are a number of causes for this prohibition, and it is a actually good query, it is a robust query to reply with out laying down sufficient of a Biblical worldview to reply it intelligently. I am going by way of every part very methodically within the guide that is why it is 400 odd pages. 

Ben:  Yeah, it is tremendous thorough.

Robert:  Yeah. After I make statements right here that will sound loopy, I’ve given the proof textual content for them within the guide. We’ve to do not forget that God is Holy and God has at all times been the one who determines how we’re going to strategy him. And, it is lower than us to find out how we will strategy him. 

And, top-of-the-line tales for form of pondering this complete query of can we use medication to enter into God’s presence is the Outdated Testomony story of Nadab and Abihu. Nadab and Abihu had been sons of Aaron who was the excessive priest and he labored together with Moses. And, when the Israelites had been wandering by way of the desert, that they had constructed the Tabernacles they usually had begun the priestly service. And, sooner or later, Aaron’s sons supplied what the Bible referring to as Unusual Hearth to God. And, they had been instantly incinerated.

And, in Leviticus, if you happen to go to Leviticus 10, verse 1, I am going to learn a few verses out of the NIV. Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu took their sensors, put hearth in them, and added incense. And, they supplied unauthorized hearth earlier than the Lord opposite to his command. So, hearth got here out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them. And, they died earlier than the Lord. Moses then mentioned to Aaron, “That is what the Lord spoke of when He mentioned, ‘Amongst those that approached me, I can be proved or proven holy. Within the sight of all of the folks, I can be honored.’” 

After which, just a few verses later, it says, the Lord mentioned to Aaron, “You and your sons are to not drink wine or different fermented drink everytime you go into the tent of assembly or you’ll die.” This can be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come back. And so, most individuals suppose that Nadab and Abihu had been consuming once they went in to do their priestly duties they usually suppose that that prompted them to principally screw up the right ritual of worship by not utilizing hearth from the altar to burn their incense. And, I feel that is most likely the most effective clarification of what was occurring there, however the level is that they entered into God’s presence below the affect they usually made a mistake and it value them their lives. And, God mentioned if a priest comes buzzed on wine into the Tabernacle, he will die.

So, do you suppose that he will welcome people who find themselves excessive on medication into his holy presence now that he is in heaven? I do not suppose so. And once more, when you perceive what God has mentioned about using medication, there’s actually no query about the truth that he hates that observe. And, the rationale I consider he hates the observe is as a result of such as you had been saying that it is not simply that you’ve the potential to come across evil spirits and demons who need to destroy you, it is that you’re in the end that’s what you are going to do.

Ben:  I’ve a query about that, by the best way, about this complete holy of holy factor with the Levites. And, I wrote an article about this at one level about these blends of oil and incense that the Levite priest would burn and apply to their our bodies within the holy of holies. And, they’re fairly probably consciousness-altering mixes like almost psychedelic mixes, like myrrh and calamus and cassia and frankincense. 

As a matter of truth, there was really this firm, it was referred to as a Victorie, spelt an IE in Port Angeles Washington that bottles these items up and makes the identical recipe that they used for the oil within the incense. And, I ordered it and tried it. I burnt it in my sauna the identical method that they might have within the holy of holies and utilized the oil to my neck that I bought excessive as a kite. 

And so, I’ve at all times type of puzzled at the back of my thoughts, properly, did God have a sure use for these compounds within the holy of holies that was restricted to the Levite priest that shifted them into this state the place they had been in a position to divine with God however had been but on this protected holy of holy area the place they would not have been uncovered to demons and entities? And, was that an exception to pharmakia or have you ever ever thought of that a lot in any respect or come throughout that?

Robert:  Properly, first off, there is a prohibition in opposition to anybody utilizing that particular incense in any context aside from, you understand.

Ben:  Yeah. And, by the best way, I did not know that on the time, I used to be similar to, “Huh, that is attention-grabbing, I am going to do this out” simply because I used to be cowboying round with stuff that actually, I feel I ought to have had much more warning with. However nonetheless, that was what I skilled.

Robert:  So, I’d query if it is actually an genuine replica as a result of I do not know that we all know the precise ratios and the precise chemical compounds, however let’s go to the scripture, and let’s get a scriptural view of what God says about priestly service. We have examine Nadab and Abihu. There’s one other reference to pharmacos particularly within the Outdated Testomony in Malachi in Chapter 3. And, it is a prophecy of what Jesus goes to do to the monks of Israel when he returns. Okay. So, I am going to learn only a couple two verses from Malachi 3 out of the NIV. It says, “Jesus will sit as a refiner and as a air purifier of silver. He’ll purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver.” So, simply as a remark, if you refine treasured metals you achieve this by hearth. Alright, so it seems to be prefer it’s one other image just like Nadab and Abihu the place he will destroy the sinning monks by way of hearth. Then, the Lord can have males who will convey choices in righteousness and the choices of Judah and Jerusalem can be acceptable to the Lord as within the days passed by as in former years.

After which, in Verse 5, it says, “So I,” and that is Jesus, “will come to place you on trial. I can be fast to testify in opposition to the sorcerers,” and that is pharmacos. So, that is not simply folks working towards any type of witchcraft, that is folks working towards witchcraft with medication particularly. And, he says, “The adulterers and the perjurers in opposition to those that defraud laborers of their wages in opposition to those that oppress the widows and the fatherless and people who deprive foreigners of justice and don’t worry me.” So, you’ve got bought one other occasion the place Jesus goes to, not in different occasion, however an occasion the place Jesus goes to take care of the Levites when he returns. And, he will principally do the identical factor that God did with Nadab and Abihu, he will refine or burn away the sinning monks. And, these sinning monks contains those who’re utilizing medication. You have bought scripture that truly addresses these items.

And once more, to not hammer away too exhausting, however I simply need to learn to you a verse from Jesus that refers to individuals who use medication. Alright, it is really probably the most terrifying verse in the entire Bible for my part. It is present in Revelation 21:8. And, on this passage, Jesus is talking, he is speaking to John. And, in Verse 6, he says, “It’s completed.” We’re on the very finish of the Bible the place at the start of the brand new heavens and earth, we’re on the finish of all issues within the judgment. And, Jesus says, “It’s completed. I’m the alpha and the omega, the start and the top. To the thirsty, I’ll give water with out value from the spring of the Water of Life. Those that are victorious will inherit all this and I can be their God and they are going to be my youngsters.” That is a beautiful verse. It is a image of the free present of everlasting life with God for the trustworthy.

However, in Verse 8, he says, “However, the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexual and the sexually immoral, those that observe magic arts,” and that is pharmacos within the Greek, that is medication particularly, “the idolaters and all liars, they are going to be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. That is the second dying.” So, we Christians, we have now to come back to phrases with what God says about drug use. We will not escape it if we will have mental honesty about God’s phrase. And, do not get me mistaken, I am studying these verses however I am not judging anyone. Jesus is choose, not Robert Orem, I used to be doing all these items. I assumed the identical method that many individuals most likely in your listening viewers take into consideration medication.

Ben:  I did too, Robert. For me, I had deeply constructive experiences that I feel had been regardless of my opinion now that based mostly on my new understanding of the Bible, now that I perceive that, I feel that it was a sin for me to be experimenting with all these medication within the trend that I used to be, specifically for the aim of journeying and coming into into different portals and dimensions. And, I’ve mentioned, yeah, taking a microdose of psilocybin for a inventive writing day or for a hunt or a hike or one thing for elevated sensory notion, I do not essentially take into account that to be pharmakia, nor do I take into account snorting a little bit little bit of oxytocin earlier than a date night time together with your spouse to be a difficulty for enhanced contact notion or one thing like that or higher intercourse. And, I even suppose that there is perhaps some use circumstances for end-of-life remedy or trauma or a few of these issues that would technically be thought-about reputable medical makes use of. However, for this concept of simply religious enlightenment and these mind-expanding journeys utilizing plant medicines, simply the truth that they arrive with these risks that I feel God knew about has painted them in an entire new mild for me.

And, I’d be actually remiss to not ask you concerning the emergence of those, particularly in America as a result of I feel that is actually problematic and this shocked me in your guide really the place you get into this dialogue between Timothy Leary and Aldous Huxley. I understand it is a little little bit of a pivot from the place we’re at proper now, however I’ve to speak about this whereas I’ve you on the present as a result of I am curious. As a result of these guys regardless of them being the grandfathers of plant drugs within the U.S. or no matter, they appear to have one thing actually out in opposition to Christianity and the Bible. And, if you have a look at the historical past of plant medicines and also you understand that the individuals who actually made it in style within the U.S. nearly had an agenda, it is a little bit bit regarding. Are you able to get into that a little bit bit?

Robert:  Yeah. Aleister Crowley was an occult magician who referred to himself as the nice beast 666. Lots of people know his identify. He is probably the most well-known and notorious cult magician there’s ever been. And, he was, simply so you understand, Aleister Crowley was a pharmacos. He first began utilizing cocaine, then he went to mescaline, and finally he turned to heroin. And, he used these medication not solely to journey to carry out astral projection, however he deliberately needed to contact demons. And, he deliberately needed them to come back to dwell inside him as a result of as an occult magician, he understood that the indwelling demons had been the supply of his magic or alcohol energy. So, that is Crowley.

What’s attention-grabbing is Aldous Huxley first wrote “The Doorways of Notion,” and gosh, I feel 55, I neglect. And, he mentioned in that guide that he had tried mescaline for the primary time and he wrote “The Doorways of Notion.” And, “The Doorways of Notion” is actually only a description of what was imagined to be Huxley’s first mescaline journey. However, it seems that Huxley had really met Aleister Crowley 20 years prior on a visit to Berlin. And, it was proper after Crowley had revealed his well-known guide on occult magic referred to as “Magick in Principle and Apply.” And, it was when Crowley was very a lot into utilizing mescaline and turning everyone else that he may probably get to strive it on to mescaline themselves. 

Properly, none of Huxley’s biographies discuss with this assembly. It is exhausting to search out. It is solely referred to in Aleister Crowley’s private journal. And, that is exhausting to search out. However, in any case, Huxley knew and understood what I’m speaking about and he realized it supposedly from Aleister Crowley. Huxley knew that the Bible speaks in opposition to using medication, interval, however particularly for any type of religious objective.

And, it blew my thoughts as a result of I did not begin down this rabbit path till I used to be studying an excerpt from Timothy Leary’s autobiography. Hopefully, your viewers is aware of who Timothy Leary is. When Timothy Leary first bought began in selling drug use and commenced the hippie motion of the ’60s, he first consulted with Aldous Huxley. And, there’s a transcript of a dialog between Huxley and Leary in Leary’s autobiography that is referred to as “Flashbacks.” And, Leary quotes Huxley as telling him that the opposition to what they had been doing was the Bible. And, that simply blew my thoughts as a result of, okay, that is no conspiracy principle, that is in Leary’s guide.

Ben:  I learn that quote by the best way, the excerpt from Timothy Leary’s autobiography and it jogged my memory of a billion discussions I hear daily. Like these two guys get collectively, they are saying, “Properly, let’s take medication and ask our expanded brains a query,” which we see on a regular basis like, “Hey, I will go journey or I will head off with a few of my different executives in my firm, we will take some psilocybin, stroll on the seaside. We’ll determine some new concepts for our firm.” We do not know we’re on this state the place we will be uncovered to additionally demons and entities, et cetera, we’re simply going to go thoughts develop. But, we all know that God’s each large G, God, and little g, gods, converse to folks by way of vegetation. 

So, there’s some hazard there already whether or not it is ergo or psilocybin or ayahuasca or no matter. After which, as soon as they begin speaking, they begin discussing this Thinker’s Stone, like this highly effective data that is been handed on by scholar and mystics and artists. And once more, you hear lots of people discuss that today, the akashic file. I will faucet into common consciousness, et cetera, et cetera. After which, certainly one of them says that society wants this data, we bought to by some means get this out into the world and out of the palms of the clever wealthy. And, that type of comes all the way down to nearly this third wave of plant drugs, hey, get this within the palms of many individuals as a result of it’s going to create kumbaya and love, love, love, and we will maintain palms and dance across the campfire. And so, they go round to that. And, on the very finish, they principally say that the mind medication, the mass-produced mind medication are going to result in huge modifications in society, and all they should do is unfold the phrase. After which, on the very finish of that quote, I feel it is Aldous says this to Timothy, he says, “The impediment of this complete evolution is the Bible.”

And, Robert I feel the rationale for that’s as a result of, just like the ’60s is an ideal instance, however I feel we’re seeing a resurgence of that now, when folks take a heroic dose of psilocybin or they go on a plant drugs journey or they go to ayahuasca or no matter, lots of instances they arrive again with this notion that appears actually noble. Mainly, like, “Hey, all of us bought to like one another. We must always all come collectively and maintain palms. We will all change this world if all of us have interaction on this shift of consciousness collectively.” 

However, the one factor that no one talks about popping out of that have is, “And, hey, by the best way, we’re damaged people, falling creatures, sinful creatures, and there is not any method that we are able to pull any of this off with out God and with out relying upon the salvation that was prolonged to us by the dying of Jesus on the cross.” In different phrases, us people can do that all on our personal holding palms and utilizing medication and we may save the planet. And, I feel that is one more reason that God expressly forbade pharmakia as a result of rapidly, it removes God from the equation as a result of we expect we are able to do all of it on our personal plus medication, center finger to God, we do not want you anymore as a result of we discovered a solution to develop our consciousness with out you. 

However, as every part from the holocaust to modern-day terrorism to the latest energy play through the pandemic and past exhibits human beings left to their very own capabilities regardless of us pondering we’re all going to do the most effective factor and assist one another out have a tendency to essentially convey the world to hell in a hand basket fairly rapidly as soon as we put our religion in one thing aside from one thing absolute morality or God or the acceptance that we’re damaged creatures in want of salvation.

And, that is why I feel that perhaps Timothy Leary and Aldous Huxley knew that one of many major impediments to the unfold of medication was going to be the Bible as a result of the Bible not solely says, A you should not be utilizing these items for salvation, however B, as you talked about very early in our dialogue, Robert, the one solution to true immortality and true happiness and true salvation is a perception in Jesus Christ that enables us to have union with God. And so, medication are an ideal solution to quickly make us suppose we do not want that, yeah?

Robert:  Proper, precisely. It is a new faith. And, on this new faith, you’ll be able to have religious experiences. Once more, with a Biblical worldview, it’s a must to perceive that this Angel-Devil that intentionally rebelled in opposition to God and has been concerned in deceiving and destroying mankind since then, he’s going to create false religions and false religious experiences with the intention to proceed to maneuver us away from God and away from Jesus Christ, particularly. And so, yeah, that is proper again to your level concerning the concern concerning the idolatry form of ingredient on this complete image. The Bible says there’s one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the person Christ Jesus. And, Jesus mentioned, “I’m the best way, the reality, and the life. And, nobody involves the daddy besides by way of me.” 

So, these are very unique claims about who will get to come back to God and the way. The how is thru me. And so, the one who’s those that have put their religion in Jesus Christ. That is the guts of the gospel. And, all Devil has to do is persuade us that there is one other method that we are able to come to God other than Jesus Christ and he is bought you. He is bought you deceived. And, you are finally going to reap the fruits of it, however even if you happen to do not find yourself having unhealthy experiences, the satan has managed to maintain you away from Jesus. And, ultimately, that is the massive deal.

Ben:  Yeah. What do you suppose although about this concept that the church, particularly the early church had quite a lot of affect from using entheogens? There’s that guide referred to as “The Immortality Key,” which relies on this concept that the Eucharist was not simply wine but it surely was like spiked wine, and that folks had been really in an altered state of consciousness within the early church. What are your ideas on that complete guide, and in principle put forth by Brian Muraresku in his guide “The Immortality Key”?

Robert:  Proper. Properly, let me first say I learn his guide. Earlier than I bought his guide, I listened to 4 hours of podcasts with Brian. He was on Joe Rogan and a pair different exhibits. And, he looks like a very sensible not likable attention-grabbing man.

Ben:  He’s. He is a buddy of mine. We have had dinner earlier than and talked about this, however I need to hear your tackle it.

Robert:  Properly, his guide did change my view of how the traditional Greeks and Romans used wine to worship Dionysus and Bacchus. Such as you mentioned, if you are going to attempt to drink sufficient alcohol with the intention to have a religious expertise, it is most likely not going to work since you’re simply cussed.

Ben:  Not if it is simply alcohol, yeah.

Robert:  Proper. And, I had at all times assumed that they had been merely consuming copious quantities of alcohol to have encounters with these, the god of wine. However now, I feel they most likely had hallucinogens reminiscent of ergot added to the wine, that is pharmakia but it surely’s in a wine service. And, I feel he satisfied me that pharmakia within the context of pagan idolatry was far more widespread, not solely in historic Greece however perhaps even in Israel than I understood previously. 

However, having mentioned that, I do not suppose Brian proved his primary thesis that hallucinogen use was widespread among the many first Christians. And, he even admitted it himself towards the top of the guide. He mentioned, “We did not discover the smoking gun.”

So, it is an entertaining learn. There’s issues I realized from it, however the factor that bought to me is, properly, he did not show his thesis. So, why did it promote, I do not know, 7 million, 12 million copies, no matter it was? And, I feel the rationale folks had been so enthusiastic about his guide is that they need to consider that God is okay with this, they need to have some validation for what they’re doing. However, if he was actually going to show his thesis, to my thoughts, there’s three ranges of proof that he type of must cross by way of. The primary one was what this guide was about, did it occur ever? Did the early church ever use ergot or one thing else within the wine of communion? There’s nonetheless no proof that that occurred even as soon as. However, like I mentioned, given all his analysis, to me it appears doable. I really would not be too stunned if I realized later that any person discovered that say, for instance, the church in Corinth, which was a large number of a church they had been concerned in every kind of occult and pagan issues. I would not be too stunned if any person discovered proof that there was one or two cases that the church in Corinth had defiled the Eucharist with ergot.

Ben:  I completely would not be stunned in the event that they had been, however on the similar time, the entire guide of first and second Corinthians is Paul writing letters to the Corinthians telling them they had been making large errors with these pagan feasts and another sexual revelry. And so, the truth that they had been doing it doesn’t imply that that was proper. And, the truth is, it seems that one of many biggest Apostles of Christianity, Paul, if he did know this, was writing to the Corinthians telling them, “Yo, knock it off, these items is harmful.”

Robert:  Yeah, you’ll be able to’t drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons.

Ben:  Yeah, he says that the cup of the Lord and cup of demons with the cup of demons very, very possible being regardless of drug-infused wine getting used through the Eucharist. So, perhaps they had been doing it, however that does not imply that they had been the right examples of early-day Christians that we’re imagined to emulate.

Robert:  Proper, precisely. So, really, Brian’s work actually, and he cites that verse, however Brian’s work actually simply strengthens the argument in opposition to it as a result of he even mentioned in his guide that there’s a proper method and a mistaken solution to do communion and that the church fathers all appear to be in settlement that including any type of drug is the mistaken method. So, he did not show it, however folks need to consider that it was a part of it. The second stage, if you happen to had been going to show it, you’d have to indicate that it occurred regularly. And, there’s completely no proof in anyway that it occurred regularly. He mentioned we did not discover a smoking gun. If you wish to say it was widespread observe, you would need to have a smoking machine gun of proof to help that. After which, lastly, which is what you already addressed, assuming you discovered widespread proof of using ergot within the communion, you’ll then must show that it was sanctioned, that it was Orthodox observe. And, the Bible simply clearly exhibits that it is not. And, like I mentioned, Brian quotes that very same verse in 1st Corinthians 10.

Ben:  Yeah. And, I imply, even when the wine was spiked again in these days or had lots of these entheogens in it, I imply additionally, I understand like probably a little bit little bit of a stretch, however Jesus was supplied that wine on the cross and refused to drink it and perhaps that was for various causes but it surely may have all additionally been as a result of Jesus Christ himself knew this man who had turned an entire bunch of water into wine on the wedding ceremony in Kana that the wine he was being supplied on the cross really was certainly one of these hallucinogenic entheogenic substances. I noticed that it is stretching and a complete speculation, however principally, I feel the lengthy story brief right here is that permit’s simply say that it is true that there have been parts of entheogenic use within the early Christian church, that is type of like saying these days, there’s parts of adultery and inaccurate preaching and/or sinful worship in some church buildings in America and due to this fact that makes it proper and it would not. I imply, church is filled with people who find themselves hypocrites and who’re sinful similar to every other ingredient of society. Simply because it is a observe in a church does not imply that we recommend it, proper?

Robert:  Appropriate. I imply, you bought to return to the Bible. To your level about Jesus refusing the wine that was supplied to him when he was being taken to be crucified, the Bible says it contained gall, which is believed to be form of a narcotic, and he turned it down. So, Jesus refused to enter an altered state of consciousness even when he was in excruciating ache. 

However, I assumed it was attention-grabbing, Brian’s guide type of introduced out the truth that wine was kind of a common service for various sorts of medication. And, that will be a great instance of it, however he argued, he quoted 1st Corinthians 10, 20, and 21, and Paul such as you mentioned, Paul mentioned, “The sacrifices of pagans are supplied to demons, to not God. And, I don’t need you to be individuals with demons.” After which, in verse 21, he mentioned, “You can’t drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too. You can’t have an element in each the Lord’s desk and the desk of demons.” And so, that to me, if Brian is correct and if that’s what they had been doing, that first addresses it completely. He is saying, “No, it is a cup of demons as a result of it is a cup of pharmakia.”

Ben:  Yeah. Within the guide, you get into a lot extra. I had each my sons learn it. It was type of like their drug schooling, truthfully, since you get into PCP and hashish and ketamine and marijuana and also you cowl all of it and also you give a very nice clarification. And so, I gave it to my sons simply because I would fairly they study all these medication within the consolation of their very own house with dad, however I like the best way you current it since you spotlight how they work, the mechanisms of motion, the risks, and a few of the issues that even the Bible says about them. 

However, I feel crucial factor about your guide, and this is without doubt one of the causes I’d actually love for folks to learn it’s you give folks hope, you principally say that actually the one solution to get that sort of everlasting shift in consciousness, an enlargement of the spirit and attainment of turning into a brand new creation is a lot easier and a lot straightforward and a lot much less behavior forming and addictive than turning to plant medicines or to medication. And, it is a quite simple however a really express message. And, that’s that you’ve this entire lifting of the burden off your again, this entire cleaning of your consciousness and conscience and this close to removing of any sort of need to be dependent upon or depend on these medicines for a religious expertise. When you uncover how straightforward and free and easy it’s to have a deeply religious expertise with God in a totally sober state in your knees within the morning — 

I can inform you what Robert, each single morning my sons and I are sitting cross-legged. I do not say this to brag or to behave like I am all holy praying in public no matter, my sons and I are sitting cross-legged on the lounge flooring and we have now incense burning and we’re taking part in soaking worship music and we’re studying the Bible and we’re praying and I am crying and it is this deeply religious launch. And, that is each single morning and there is not any medication concerned. After which, we arise and we go about our day. And, the complete day is magical and wonderful due to that.

And, I want extra folks may simply expertise that, particularly persons are contemplating going off and performing some sort of plant drugs journey. I’d problem any person listening in, simply strive it. As an alternative of performing some fasting and dieta and main as much as your tremendous particular journey to go see a shaman, perhaps take that point as a substitute and simply spend 30 days in prayer and meditation and soul looking and journaling and studying passages of the Bible like Proverbs or 1st John or Romans or any of those different wonderful passages of scripture. After which, take these, I do not know, often it is like three or 4 days that you’ve got devoted to taking medication and doing all of your intention setting and journaling afterwards, as a substitute exit within the forest or to a quiet place and quick and have some water and have your Bible and a journal with out the medication. And, I assure that you just’re most likely going to have, not most likely, I do know you are going to have a greater expertise. 

However, here is the issue, Robert, 99% of individuals will hear that they usually’ll be like, “Wait, that does not sound like all enjoyable, I do not get to do medication, I do not get to shift my consciousness, I do not get to see particular colours inside my head” although belief me if you happen to fasted for 2 days and also you’re deep in prayer with God, you will notice lots of particular colours inside your head. Don’t fret about that. however, it is a type of issues the place folks simply do not need to chop wooden and carry water. However, if you happen to’re listening in, I’d say, “Hey, you understand what, simply strive it.” Earlier than you go off and do plant drugs, strive the opposite route, strive the more durable route, strive the route that includes blood, sweat, and tears and exhausting work and fasting and going off by your self. And, I want extra folks would do this earlier than they are saying, “Hey, I discovered God by way of plant medicines.” As a result of in the event that they did that first, I am going to wager they’d say, “Hey, I discovered God by way of prayer and fasting and engagement within the religious disciplines.” And, I feel that is what folks want much more than they want one more journey to the Peru to the Amazon to do Ayahuasca.

Ben:  Proper. And, if my thesis on pharmakia is true, then the experiences they’re having are a deception. And, they’re a convincing deception, A, due to the sensory impact of the medication. And, folks make the error of pondering, “Oh, properly, if I am having an intense expertise, then it should be a real expertise.” However, that is not essentially the case. The medication have gotten your sensory enter on subsequent stage turned as much as 11. So, no matter religious expertise you are having if you’re excessive goes to be intense. The issue is it is a deception. And, the real expertise that the deception is an imitation of is the expertise of rebirth and renewal and religious life by way of religion within the real God, which comes by way of religion in Jesus Christ. 

To your level, I imply, I’ve by no means felt I’ve lacked entry to religious energy or steering since I got here to religion in Jesus Christ. Ever have I had experiences that had been as intense as a few of the experiences I had on psilocybin. I’ve had just a few, however once more, that is not what determines whether or not or not they’re genuine and real and could be trusted. And, real religion within the real God brings real renewal and real life. And, such as you mentioned, there isn’t any substitute for it.

Ben:  Yeah, I agree. Properly, we scratch the floor of your guide and what’s contained inside it. I’d actually problem folks to exit and skim it. We most likely bought some people pondering and wanting to depart some feedback and questions and suggestions. And so, if you happen to go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Pharmakia, that is BenGreenfieldLife.com/P-H-A-R-M-A-Ok-I-A, BenGreenfiedLife.com/Pharmakia, you’ll be able to depart your questions, you’ll be able to depart your feedback, you’ll be able to depart your suggestions. 

I am going to hyperlink to Robert’s web site, RobertOrem.com in addition to his guide. He is doing a brand new sequence of movies. After I point out his guide, I feel you type of noticed a little bit little bit of a resurgence of visitors to his web site and he is beginning to put out some actually good content material. And once more, like I discussed within the introduction, Robert and I are even speaking behind the scenes about perhaps me recording the audio model of his guide if you wish to take heed to it. However, within the meantime, you’ve got a minimum of gotten a little bit style of what is in there in right this moment’s present.

Robert, I need to thanks a lot for approaching the present for penning this guide. We may have talked for hours clearly, however I feel we lined a minimum of a little bit little bit of what I needed to cowl. I hope we bought some folks interested by the risks of those medicines and a few issues that you must take into consideration as a substitute. And so, I am tremendous grateful for you, man. And, thanks for approaching the present.

Robert:  Likewise, brother.

Ben:  Alright, people. I am Ben Greenfield together with Robert Orem signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com. Have an incredible week.

Alright, that is cool, however you need to concentrate as a result of it is arising proper across the nook on Friday, December 2nd. You are going to get an opportunity to hitch me and a few actually highly effective therapeutic physicians down in Sarasota, Florida. This can be a reside occasion. It goes from 8:00 a.m. to five:00 p.m. I will be there, my buddy, and a superb former podcast visitor, The Physician Unusual of Drugs, Dr. John Lieurance goes to be there, HBOT USA, Dr. Jason and Melissa Sonners are going to be there with their Hyperbaric Oxygen Remedy, Brian Richards of SaunaSpace, Harry Paul, certainly one of John’s associates who I not too long ago met who’s additionally an incredible healer for an occasion that is tremendous distinctive. It is all based mostly across the parts: earth, hearth, air, and water, with a ton of therapies and applied sciences and modalities, and really distinctive biohacks that you will get uncovered to throughout the complete occasion.

Mainly, what I imply by that’s in relation to air, you are going to study hyperbaric oxygen, and ozone, and air filtration, every part you might want to know to improve your air. In relation to earth, pulsed electromagnetic discipline remedy, earthing, grounding, a bunch of different ways in which you should utilize the facility of the planet to reinforce your well being, your sleep, your restoration, your muscle achieve, your fats loss, much more water. You will study correct water filtration, the way to improve your water, hydrogenated water, structured water, principally soup to nuts, every part you might want to find out about water and the way to apply it in your house and your workplace and your life. After which, lastly hearth, is a enjoyable one. A number of cryotherapy, a little bit little bit of ice too, breathwork, internal hearth practices, a ton of stuff in relation to introducing the ingredient of fireplace into your life.

So, this occasion is tremendous distinctive. John and I’ve been engaged on it behind the scenes and it has come collectively amazingly. There’s even a VIP expertise. In case you join the VIP expertise, you would come two days early or keep just a few days after the occasion, and principally, you’re going to get all of the medical protocols custom-made by Dr. John and his employees if you happen to declare a type of 10 VIP spots. That’ll embrace IV methylene blue, laser therapies, John’s actually distinctive bliss launch, which is principally an endonasal adjustment, which is actually a chiropractic adjustment by way of your nostril on your whole cranium, which if you happen to’ve had TBI or concussion or allergy symptoms or issues like that previously, it completely reboots that whole system. There’s going to even be ozone therapies, Myers’ IV cocktails, exosome therapies, IV laser, entry to a CVAC machine. And, John’s whole facility goes to be at your beck and name if you happen to bought one of many VIP tickets.

After which, we’re additionally most likely going to have a little bit little bit of a celebration afterward within the night after this occasion. The entire thing goes to be a pinch-me-I am-dreaming full-on cutting-edge of biohacking expertise. And, I am simply now letting the world find out about it so spots are going to refill fairly quick. Area is proscribed, however if you wish to get in now, here is how. You go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/Parts-Occasion. That is BenGreenfieldLife.com/Parts-Occasion. It is in Sarasota, Florida. Once more, it is all-day Friday, December 2nd. I’d are available in early and keep after. In case you simply need to check out all of the loopy modalities there. I do not understand how quick these VIP tickets are going to promote out, however both method, this factor goes to be completely wonderful. I simply can’t wait, like I am pinching myself, cannot wait to be on the airplane to move down there and do that. So, test it out, BenGreenfieldLife/Parts-Occasion. And, I am going to see you there, I hope.

Greater than ever today, folks such as you and me want a contemporary entertaining, well-informed, and infrequently outside-the-box strategy to discovering the well being, and happiness, and hope that all of us crave. So, I hope I have been ready to do this for you on this episode right this moment. And, if you happen to appreciated it or if you happen to love what I am as much as, then please depart me a overview in your most popular podcast listening channel wherever that is perhaps and simply discover the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say one thing good. Thanks a lot. It means rather a lot.

 

 

You most likely already know that I’ve change into more and more disillusioned with using plant medicines.

There have been many, many elements that went into this alteration of perspective, which I wrote about in depth in a wildly in style, considerably controversial two-part article sequence, The Huge Drawback With “Plant Medicines”: (learn Half 1 right here and Half 2 right here). Then, final month, I adopted up with a podcast fully dedicated to the subject of plant drugs.

A key guide I learn that considerably knowledgeable my selections on this subject was titled Pharmakia: The Biblical View of Drug Use, by Robert Orem. This can be a guide that I typically point out today after I’m discussing plant medicines (and for my part, if you happen to’re utilizing or interested by utilizing plant medicines, it is a guide you could learn). Many individuals aren’t even conscious that the Bible refers to drug use (the truth is, there are 37 distinct references to medication within the Bible), however Robert’s guide is greater than only a thorough investigation into what the Bible says about medication. Additionally it is a strong, hope-filled message of hope and love and freedom from dependancy for drug customers and addicts, or people who really feel like they’re closely connected to or depending on plant medicines.

Robert, my visitor on this podcast, is a Christian, former drug addict who researched the Bible’s references to drug use for a few years. A trainer in jails, therapy facilities, colleges, and church buildings, he not too long ago launched In Step Fellowships, a biblical restoration group for all sorts of dependancy.

In right this moment’s podcast, Robert shares his private historical past with plant medicines and drug dependancy, what the phrase “Pharmakia” actually means, his fascinating views on whether or not God created plant medicines for particular functions, and far more.

Throughout our dialogue, you will uncover:

-Robert Orem’s journey in the direction of plant drugs…08:10

  • Pharmakia: The Biblical View of Drug Use by Robert Orem
  • The everyday Eighties occasion boy seeking to have a great time
  • Not even conscious of the time period “plant drugs” at the moment
  • Additionally began weight coaching on the similar time he began utilizing pot
  • Hooked on euphoria and rest, creativity, and good instances
  • Was nonetheless “practical” – higher exercises, higher inventive writing periods, and so forth.

-Did Robert ever get into ayahuasca and mind-expanding religious exploration?…12:03

  • Began smoking pot in junior highschool, was smoking every day in senior excessive, hit the fitness center daily, took cocaine, mushrooms, and a few prescription drugs, however drug of selection was marijuana
  • Every part modified throughout his freshman 12 months of school whereas doing prescription drugs
  • Had an expertise that shamans discuss with as “being thought” – the thoughts is taken over, and also you obtain a imaginative and prescient or a stage of understanding that’s supernatural
  • Second when he noticed his future and noticed every part in his life falling aside, had his first of many panic assaults
  • Went downhill from there – left faculty, broke up with a girlfriend, began dwelling in a van, psychological well being points
  • Spent 8 years attempting to cease, however nothing labored
  • Tried 12 Steps
  • Was launched to shamanism, Buddhism, Hinduism, meditation, and so forth., and began studying philosophical books, Zen books, and religious books
  • It by no means occurred to him to crack open a Bible or name out to Jesus; was not an choice he thought-about
  • Relapsed, then turned a Christian and noticed God working in a strong method, accepted Jesus Christ

-The hyperlink between drug use and spirituality and the risks of it…21:14

  • The usage of psilocybin and religious expertise – Psilocybin can event mystical-type experiences
    having substantial and sustained private which means and religious significance
  • Medication shift you right into a state just like the state of religious enlightenment – just like prayer and meditation
    • Many atheists change into conscious of God and the religious world after psilocybin or DMT use
    • For some, the potential of those compounds could imply the salvation of humankind
  • Aldous Huxley
  • Timothy Leary
  • The thought of utilizing medication as a crutch to permit somebody to be religious is harmful
    • Creates religious laziness by counting on drugs to get to God
    • Opens folks as much as different religious entities that would possess them
    • Some come again with triggered schizophrenia, bipolar dysfunction, or feeling of being possessed
  • What the Scriptures say:
    • 1/3 of all of the angels rebelled in opposition to God and adopted Devil and have become demons
    • God condemns using medication
  • Robert’s experiences with drug use after turning into a Christian
  • How meditation removes full need to strive medication to get religious experiences

What’s pharmakia? Is it using medication particularly for divination?…35:15

  • It’s necessary to not develop the definition of the time period to the areas the Scripture doesn’t handle
  • It is also necessary to not limit the definition of the time period to eradicate practices that the Scripture addresses
  • Pharmakia: The Biblical View of Drug Use by Robert Orem
  • Pharmakeia A Hidden Murderer by Dr. Ana Mendez Ferrell
  • Pharmakia refers to any substance that folks use to enter an altered state of consciousness, other than reputable medical want
  • Pharmakia within the Bible is related to idol worship and the observe of witchcraft
  • So-called “journeying” is identical as shamanic flight or astral projections
    • An intentional out-of-body expertise, wherein both the witch or the shaman initiatives their religious physique into the religious realm
    • It’s achieved through the use of medication
    • Whereas within the religious realm, they’ve their encounters with no matter gods they’re searching for to come across

-White magic shamans declare they’ll go into battles with demons or darkish spirits by way of the powers of Jesus and God. Is that additionally pharmakia?…40:23

  • Three Greek phrases related to drug use
    • Pharmakia – witchcraft or idolatry that features using medication
    • Pharmakos – the one who’s working towards pharmakia
    • Epano – the excessive one, refers to folks utilizing medication, in magic or not
  • Exodus 22: 18 – a verse from the Outdated Testomony that clarifies pharmakia
    • Moses, talking on behalf of God, says: You shall not allow a sorceress to reside
    • Sorceress, in Greek being pharmakos, right here utilized in feminine kind, refers to a witch utilizing medication to carry out magic
  • The usage of medication for religious functions is condemned and listed together with bestiality and idolatry
  • The Outdated Testomony story of Nadab and Abihu, sons of Aaron (Leviticus 10:1)
    • They supplied unauthorized hearth earlier than God, and hearth got here out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them
    • The Lord mentioned to Aaron: You and your sons are to not drink wine or different fermented drink everytime you go into the tent of assembly, or you’ll die.
  • They entered into God’s presence below the affect, they usually made a mistake, and it value them their lives

-Oils and incense utilized by Holy monks are a psychedelic combine and an exception to pharmakeia?…56:19

  • Victorie
  • One other reference to pharmakos is in Malachi 3
    • A prophecy of what Jesus would do to the monks of Israel when he returns
    • In verse 5; So I and can come to place you on trial, I can be fast to testify in opposition to the sorcerers (pharmakos)
  • Revelation 21:8 – what Jesus thinks about utilizing medication
    • “However the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexual and the sexually immoral, those that observe magic arts (pharmakos in Greek, medication, particularly), the idolaters and all liars, they are going to be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur, that is the second dying”

-The grandfathers of plant drugs and their resentment of Christianity…01:03:33

  • Aleister Crowley was an occult magician and referred to himself as the nice beast; a pharmakos who deliberately needed to contact demons
  • Aldous Huxley first wrote The Doorways of Notion and Heaven and Hell and described his use of mescaline
    • Met Crowley 20 years earlier than that when Crowley was into mescaline, however hardly ever talked about
    • Magick in Principle and Apply by Aleister Crowley
    • Timothy Leary mentions in his autobiography, Flashbacks, that Huxley informed him that the opposition to what they had been doing was the Bible
  • Timothy Leary and Aldous Huxley knew that one of many major impediments to the unfold of medication is the Bible
    • The one solution to true immortality, true happiness, and salvation is a perception in Jesus Christ, which permits us to have union with God
    • Medication are an ideal solution to quickly make us suppose we do not want that
  • It’s a brand new faith with false religious experiences
  • All Devil has to do is persuade us that there’s one other solution to come to God other than Jesus Christ, and he is bought us deceived
  • The how is thru Jesus Christ
  • The who’s those that have put their religion in Jesus Christ

-Did the church have quite a lot of affect from using entheogens?…01:13:44

  • The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku
  • The guide modified Robert’s view of how the traditional Greeks and Romans used wine to worship Dionysus and Bacchus
    • They most likely had hallucinogens reminiscent of ergot added to the wine
  • Satisfied Robert that pharmakia within the context of pagan idolatry was far more widespread, not solely in historic Greece, however perhaps even in Israel
  • Robert thinks Brian didn’t show his primary thesis, that hallucinogen use was widespread among the many first Christians
    • Did it ever occur? Did the early Christians actually use ergot?
    • Did it occur regularly?
    • If it did occur regularly, was it orthodox observe?
  • Throughout his crucifixion, Jesus refused the wine that contained some form of narcotic he was supplied
  • Apostle Paul talks concerning the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons

-And far more…

Upcoming Occasions:

  • Parts Of Vitality with Dr. John Lieurance, Ben Greenfield & Associates: December 2, 2022, 8:00 AM – 5:00 PM EST.

Dr. John Lieurance & Ben Greenfield provide a uncommon expertise to discover the weather of Earth, Hearth, Air, and Water with distinctive therapies, applied sciences, modalities, and biohacks to characterize the therapeutic powers of every ingredient individually. Study extra right here.

Sources talked about on this episode:

– Robert Orem:

– Podcasts:

Different Sources:

Episode sponsors:

LMNT: Everybody wants electrolytes, particularly these on low-carb diets, who observe intermittent or prolonged fasting, are bodily energetic, or sweat rather a lot. Go to DrinkLMNT.com/BenGreenfield to get a free present together with your buy!

Lucy Nicotine Gum: In case you are in search of a cleaner and tastier various to different nicotine merchandise, Lucy is for you. To avoid wasting 20% on any order, head over to lucy.co simply use low cost code BEN20.

Clearlight Sauna: If you wish to sweat buckets within the privateness of your personal house, go to HealwithHeat.com and use code: BEN for a reduction and free transport – the free transport alone is a big saving as a result of these saunas are large, heavy, and well-made!

Parts of Vitality Occasion: Be a part of Ben in Sarasota, Florida, with Dr. John Lieurance on Friday, Dec 2nd, from 8:00 am-5:00 pm for a uncommon expertise to discover the weather of Earth, Hearth, Air, and Water with distinctive therapies, applied sciences, modalities, and biohacks to characterize the therapeutic powers of every ingredient individually. Declare your spot right this moment at bengreenfieldlife.com/elements-event.

Inside Tracker: InsideTracker offers you with a customized plan to construct endurance, increase power, and optimize your well being for the lengthy haul. Get 20% off the complete InsideTracker retailer if you go to insidetracker.com/ben.

BiOptimizers (Magnesium Breakthrough): The 7 important types of magnesium included on this full spectrum serving assist you to calm down, unwind, and switch off your energetic mind after an extended and hectic day so you’ll be able to relaxation peacefully and get up feeling refreshed, vibrant and alert. Go to bioptimizers.com/ben and use code ben10 for 10% off any order.



sagaciousthoughts
sagaciousthoughtshttps://sagaciousthoughts.com
I am Christian Nnakuzierem Alozie (Kris Kuzie Alozie). A native of Eziama Nneato in Umunneochi LGA, Abia State, Nigeria. I am an inspirational writer and a motivational speaker. And above all, a lover of charity.

Related Articles

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here

Latest Articles